Flow State Business

Doctor to Nomad: How She Turned Intuition Into Income - with Chelsea Turgeon

• Ruby Lee

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From medical residency to 58 countries and a wildly successful coaching business - Chelsea shares how she walked away from the “perfect” path to build a life that actually feels like hers.


We talk intuition, money, building momentum in business, messaging, Substack, and letting your brand evolve as fast as you do.


This one’s a big permission slip to choose what’s true for you, even when no one else gets it.


👉 DM me what landed for you in this ep.


About Chelsea:

Dr. Chelsea Turgeon is a business mentor and founder of The Spiritually Ambitious Entrepreneur Substack and $100K Healer podcast. She dropped out of OBGYN residency in 2019 and built a six figure coaching business from cafes around the world. If you dream of building a business that feels like YOU, changes lives and funds your freedom, you’ll want to subscribe to The Spiritually Ambitious substack.


How to find Chelsea:

Ruby: Hi guys. We have a very special guest on the pod today and yeah, it just so happens to be 11:30 PM on her side of the world right now, which we'll talk to Chelsea about in a second. But I am so excited to welcome Chelsea on because Chelsea and I have worked together for a really long time. Honestly, I think we've just morphed into like such great friends now and it's just so beautiful to be able to always catch up with her wherever she is on the globe.

Ruby: This conversation is really gonna be geared towards truly, truly building a freedom-based business and having a business to support your life and not having to do it the other way around, which I love. So welcome to the podcast, Chelsea. I'm so happy that you're here. 

Chelsea: Thank you, Ruby. I'm excited to be on here since I've been listening for so long, and just to like have this kind of a conversation with you.

Ruby: It's amazing. All right. Tell our audience where you currently are right now. 

Chelsea: I am in Swakopmund, Namibia.

Ruby: Is this your first time in Namibia?

Chelsea: It is my first time and it will not be my last. It was a little bit of a chance encounter getting here. Just sort of like a process of elimination moment and I'm like, there was a time when I wasn't gonna come here.

Chelsea: It's, it's such an incredible place and you know, I've traveled, this is my 58th country that I've been to, and there's something really special about Namibia. 

Ruby: I feel like there's something really special in Africa for you in particular, because every time you are there, your energy is so lit up. But I have to tell everyone, the first time Chelsea and I were on a Zoom together, you were in some dark mountain hut.

Ruby: Where were you? Were you in South America? 

Chelsea: Yeah. This is hilarious. A dark mountain hood. It makes me sound like a total creeper and now 

Chelsea: I'm like, oh my gosh, how? How did I come across? I do you sometimes I don't even think about these things. I was in my backpacking through Latin America phase. It was before I hit six figures in my business.

Chelsea: But working with Ruby, that was the first year I hit six figures. So I was in Cusco, Peru, and I was about to hike the Inca Trail and like go off the grid for like five days. 

Ruby: And she was like, Hey. And it was, I remember this is when I used to do like discovery calls and sales calls and the internet was like in and out and I'm like, who is this chick?

Ruby: And, but I had like stalked your Instagram and I'm like, oh my gosh, I so you, okay, we got to, we gotta fill everyone in on your background. But basically that is, that was years ago and Chelsea and I have been working on and off, but always following each other's journey. And I mean, Chelsea is a true.

Ruby: Digital nomad and I would say like one of my OG people that, you know, we were traveling at the same time and going all around the world. So you and I had so much to ban for about when we were living, when I was living the nomadic life. And you are still doing it, which is incredible. But let's take everyone back to.

Ruby: Where this all started. You did not start off as an entrepreneur. Where did it begin in terms of this light bulb moment of I've got to get off this like very straight and narrow. Let's 

Ruby: fill everyone in. 

Chelsea: Yes. So yeah, the straight and narrow is exactly right. 'cause that's kind of what it felt like. It's just like the checkbox conveyor belt kind of lifestyle.

Chelsea: The thread that was there the whole time, and that still is here, is I was a big nerd about personal growth and I would have my parents drive me to Barnes and Noble when I was tell them I was gonna study, but I would literally go to the personal growth aisle and like read about the, like it was a secret thing.

Chelsea: I didn't want anyone to know, but I was like, I'm so nerdy and I love doing this. I remember one year in college I made like spreadsheets. 'cause I read this book, the Happiness Project, and I was like, I'm gonna make my own. But then the guy I was dating at the time looked at it and I was like so embarrassed.

Chelsea: So I was like, I don't want anyone to know that. I like personal growth. It was like my dirty little secret, which is so weird. And so I, I knew I loved psychology, so I wanted to go into psychology. I majored in that and then. Thought that I wanted to do psychiatry and like go to medical school, which was an interesting decision and really not the right one.

Chelsea: I chose it for all of the wrong reasons, you know, just the superficial need for validation and wanting people to be impressed with you. And I was smart enough to do it, so I did it. Um, so I kind of go along this whole track that, I don't know, it just feels like you, you didn't mean to choose it, but because you're choosing it for the wrong reasons that are not really true to you, and then you just kind of wake up one day.

Chelsea: You're like, wait, where am I? What have I been doing? And um, I kind of just like woke up in this like deep place of burnout, um, in the year two of my residency. And I was just like, this is not what I want. This is not what I wanna be doing. If I could go back, I wouldn't choose to do this again. And so I just sort of let go of the sunk costs in that moment.

Chelsea: I had been learning about meditation and spirituality, and I had discovered, um, the law of attraction and had been learning about intuition from a podcast. So there's like things that were starting to come together. And then I just made this decision. It was really through a journaling exercise I did, because I was feeling a pull to, to travel and just to go, and that didn't make sense because I was from Alabama.

Chelsea: I had never traveled, like truly had not traveled. Wow. That is amazing. But I was feeling a pull to travel and I was like feeling like, ugh, like just this tug, like I have to go somewhere. And so I wrote this thing in my journal. I was like, what are all the stories I'm telling myself about why I can't leave?

Chelsea: Like, why I can't, um, go and travel the world? And I wrote everything out, like, what if I can't find a way to make money doing it? What if everyone judges me for like quitting being a doctor? Like what if. I can't find someone to take care of my dog. Like all of these questions, writing it all out, and then I get to the end and this thing comes out that surprises me.

Chelsea: And it was like, but what if I never go? What if I never see the world and I spend the rest of my life in this freezing cold or where I don't wanna be? And it was like that felt scarier all of a sudden than everything else. 

Chelsea: So I was like, I gotta go. 

Ruby: Oh my gosh, Chelsea. I just felt this like full goosebumps when you said that.

Ruby: And even that is such an important exercise for us all to do about these. Like why I can't do things in life or why I can't achieve things in business. Like you've totally inspired me to do the same. And it's just like you are such a big practicer and em embodiment of journaling as well. And I just love hearing these examples.

Ruby: All right. So I wanna know in that moment when you decided, no, I'm out. Bye-bye. Not doing so, I'm not, I'm not gonna go on and, you know, go into the medical line. How did that conversation take place, if at all, with the people around you? Like your family members, your boyfriend at the time, what did you do to go from that reality to buying your first plane ticket?

Chelsea: Mm-hmm. Yeah. 'cause I was, there's a lot that had been going on internally that I wasn't communicating. So by the moment I told people I'm having a really hard time in residency. I don't know if I wanna continue. It was a complete shock to people because I had been performing at this level of like golden child, right?

Chelsea: Internally crumbling. Then all. So it's, it's this interesting moment where like everyone's like, wait, what? And the interesting thing for me is I didn't have like a deep, deep connection to intuition or self. Like I had never really made a decision purely from me, but there was something about like how I had connected in like during that journaling session, during like a few before or after, where I just felt this deep sense of certainty, like really dropped into self.

Chelsea: I came to these conversations with this deep place of wisdom of like they're not gonna understand. And that's exactly it. Like if they understood it wouldn't be the path I need to go on. Not that I have to be contrarian, but just that like, like it was this very clear expectation that like I feel certain and calm somehow still to this day.

Chelsea: Don't know how I felt so calm. There was no logical reason for me to feel calm, but I was just like, I know that this is right. I also know that no one's gonna really understand it. There was no single person during that time who was like, this is a great idea. Like some people were like, we love you, we want you to be happy.

Chelsea: We think you're having a mental breakdown. But no single person was like, rock on. Like, you got this. They were tentatively supportive. So yeah, I, I'm still like impressed with that version of me who just knew what she had to do, saw it clearly, and did it despite. All the different reactions that are correct.

Ruby: I can imagine. Because like your whole life up to that point would've been like, you are gonna school, you are gonna finish medical, you're gonna do all this. Like every single decision that you would've made for the last like five years would've been geared towards you being successful on this path. So, oh my gosh.

Ruby: Okay. First plane ticket that you bought, where did you go? South Korea. South Korea. I love it. I know that is also, that is like such deep end travel because like I'm sure by the time you, when, when you went there, I mean, I've obviously just come back from there and most people now speak English and there's all these apps and there's, you know, all the things to translate.

Ruby: You would've gone during a time when it wasn't all that westernized, you know, like. Tell us about that experience and 

Ruby: what did you do there? 

Chelsea: Yeah, so it was 2019 when I went there and just to like paint you guys a picture, like the last time I had really been out of the country was like, I went on a service trip to Nicaragua like five years before.

Chelsea: Okay. And so I decide I'm gonna be a travel blogger. I bought my domain, the turquoise traveler.com. I'm gonna sell all my things and I'm gonna go travel the world as someone who. Had not really traveled at all. And then I needed to make money while doing that. 'cause I didn't really have an income source.

Chelsea: And I got a job teaching English in South Korea. So that's why I bought the plane ticket there. Taught English and I was literally in the school teaching English, um, for the entire year. But then on evenings and weekends I was learning about online business and figuring out what I want us to do. 'cause this was sort of a temporary like stop gap.

Chelsea: Like I wanna be out of the country. I need to make money. I want it to be an easy kind of phone it in job. Not that te teaching in general is not an easy job, but in South Korea teaching English, you're just like the English mascot. You just are kind of there to like speak the words. And then you have a co-teacher who like does the grading and the, so anyway, it was, it was like at phone it end job.

Chelsea: Yeah. And yeah. But then really the whole goal was to figure out how to make money online. 

Ruby: That's amazing. And was there someone that you had looked at. As an example, during that time, I mean blogging was so big. I remember 2015 through to 2019 was when it was really at its high. And we'll talk about the resurgence of that in a second.

Ruby: 'cause you have come back into it. But how did you know that that's how I'm gonna make money? Like what was it that made you go that to me feels doable, realistic, and I wanna give that a try. 

Chelsea: Yeah, it's so funny. Um, so I had found, I had been, for the first two years of residency, I had started solo hiking and solo camping, which is, again, that was also really random.

Chelsea: I had not done that at all in medical school, but I had a dog and I felt a lot of dog mom guilt. And so I was like, on the weekends, what are we gonna do? I need to take him out. So I just kind of ended up solo hiking and solo camping. And through that I discovered some blogs of some other women who were solo hiking, solo camping, and one of those was be my travel muse.

Chelsea: Um, her name's Kristen Addis. And the funny thing is, I actually had her on my podcast the same week that I talked to you in Cusco. It was like that same Airbnb. Wow. So I ended up having her on my podcast, but um, she, I, yeah, I, I read her memoir, I read her, she has a whole book of like, how to make it work while you're traveling.

Chelsea: And so I learned about teaching English from her. So yeah, she was a, an example for me. Um, I also followed nomadic Matt, he's like the biggest travel blogger at that time. And so, yeah, just sort of use some of their eBooks and resources to find my way into teaching English and figuring out the lay of the land for travel blogging.

Ruby: I think that's such a perfect example, isn't it? It's like that whole adage of when you switch your reality, the people that come into your life are examples of what's possible. 'cause your reality would've gone from here is someone really successful. A really successful doctor, someone who's done really, really well, you know, in the medical field to here's a really successful person who's traveling the world and riding and making money and earning in a very unconventional way.

Ruby: And that literally is just like all these doors started to flip open for you, which is amazing. So I wanna skip forward slightly because that was the real opening of your journey, but where you are now, so you are five 

Ruby: years in, no. 

Chelsea: Almost like seven. If we count 2019 as my start, it's like seven. Yeah. 

Ruby: Yeah.

Ruby: So you are seven 

Ruby: years into business and all through this entire time. Correct me if I'm wrong, you've been traveling, you've been literally, have you been home? Have you been home to Alabama for like a significant 

Ruby: amount of time? 

Chelsea: Not for a significant amount of time. Um, there was two weddings and then a funeral that I've gone back for.

Chelsea: And so it's like a couple weeks each. Yeah. 

Ruby: Yeah. So it's, you've been. Pretty much just on the go, on the move, ever since you made that decision that you need to see the world. So how have you sustained that? So we, we need to know, because you are not a blogger, you are a very successful coach and a mentor, and you've built a business which is literally thriving.

Ruby: So we wanna know how that happened. Take take us to this moment where you're like, you know what? I can do so much more and I can. Really take my earning potential a lot further. 

Chelsea: Yeah. Well, the transition into coaching was super natural because I had always loved personal growth and once I was in the world of the travel blogging and had more time on my hands, I just somehow discovered that coaching was a thing.

Chelsea: And once I realized it existed, I was like, I need to do that. Like there was no question in my mind. Like, you know, it was one of those light bulb like, oh, absolutely someone created that job for me. Like, I, I'm gonna do that. And so that was pretty quickly on, even like the first year when I was travel blogging on the side, I started doing that.

Chelsea: There's just like no replacement for it. Like some of my friends and I have talked about this, there's just like this coaching high that you get when you're really like in the zone with someone else and there's breakthroughs and you're kind of like playing around in their brain with consent. There's just like something beautiful that happens in those moments.

Chelsea: And so it's like just kind of following that it, it was like. The next right thing, you know, it was like leaving felt right all of a sudden. So I left medicine coaching felt right, so I followed that and it's like you don't always get the full path laid out, but if you can really just take, there's always the next right thing in front of you.

Chelsea: So it's like if you can just take that and move towards that, that's the journey. Like you just kind of let it unfold. I dunno if I answered your question. 

Ruby: Yeah, no, but it's, that's, this is perfect. But so many people struggle with that because I'm sure you see this with your clients as well, where it's like, I've got this fantastic idea and you, you might've even, you know, seen their business plans or their life plans and then somewhere along the way, maybe it's just like 1130 at night staring at the ceiling going, oh, what the fuck was I thinking?

Ruby: There is no way I can do this. And then they totally, you know, backpedal and never quite get there. You, on the other hand, just based off these examples, it's just like, yep, let's go. Like there's not even a set plan, it's just I'm following the next step. I'm following that door that's open for me. I'm gonna walk through it.

Ruby: I think that is such a incredible gift that you have that like full trust and that sense of self around it. Like, what do you think it is? Is it your practice? Is it your upbringing? Is it the people that you hang out with? Like what would you put it down to that certainty in your life? 

Chelsea: Yes. So if, I'm gonna be honest, like the way it happened in the beginning is.

Chelsea: More like a DHD impulsivity where I kind of did something and then you sort of back yourself into a corner of like, oh, well, there's no going back. And then there's a bit of stubbornness as well of like, well, I'm already here doing it. Yes. But, so it's like the initiation is not hard for me because the initiation is almost like a flaw that I have.

Chelsea: But then now I'm kind of leveraging the flaw of it, um, to initiate the things and then. The real moment is when I'm like kind of in the middle where I'm looking around like, oh shoot, what did I get myself into? And like I'm trying to find a way out. Like, you know, I'm like, oh gosh, what have I done? I wanna find a way out.

Chelsea: And that's where I really have had to build trust in myself and that that has been learned. So that's a skill, like really the only practice I have that helps with that, that it's just connecting to your intuition. And so that's a process I do through meditation, through journaling. It's. It's something I teach my clients.

Chelsea: I have, I did like a facilitator certification around it just to learn how to help other people get into their intuitions. And so that's, that's kind of the rock of my practice is having that. But then the other part is also now that I'm seven years in to like these impulsive things that have kind of led me in the right path, it's now I have evidence to kind of back up that I can trust the feeling.

Chelsea: Yes. And I know I'm gonna be okay when I follow it. 

Ruby: Yes. Oh, that is so special. And that's, that's like that intuitive muscle, you know, that we always talk about. You can't see it, but every time you say yes, and even if you say yes and it ends up at a dead end, that's okay. 'cause it's always like, you know, I think.

Ruby: For you and I, you and I have had conversations where I, I think I've seen you in the freakout and you're like, ah, like what have I done? And I see you like, you ground yourself. You do these like really deep breaths on the call. You're like, okay, okay. You know, like I can see you regulating your whole nervous system and all of that.

Ruby: And then. Not even two weeks later, we're on another Zoom chat and you're like, okay, I'm good. Okay. This is the whole plan, just your recovery time, your bounce back is so fast and it, that resilience that's within you is, I would say just such a huge part of being an entrepreneur. And you know, over the years, have you seen, as you've seen seven years into coaching, the space has gotten really crowded, like without a doubt.

Ruby: I've noticed it. There's just been, there's such low barrier to entry. There's just been so many new coaches and you know, the ones that rise to the top are really at the top and the ones in the middle kind of feel like a bit lost. So how do you navigate through those times? Like personally, like coach to coach, like, I've also been through these as well.

Ruby: Where it's like, what's next? Like I wanna know for you, how are you reinventing yourself through the times standing out being not just a needle in the haystack, but someone who's like the sought after person in the industry and specifically like for your people. 

Chelsea: Yeah. And I think if I try to think of it as how do I stand out?

Chelsea: That feels like so much pressure. But if I think of it like how do I remove all the barriers to just being myself, that feels much better. And so really that's what it is. You know, you like the Michelangelo David thing where he's like, how did you create this beautiful statue? And he's like, I just removed everything.

Chelsea: That wasn't David. And it's like if we just, he had the block of marble. I, yeah. And then it's like from the block of marble, he just removed everything. And so it's like not about becoming, it's like, you know, the unbecoming of remove all the things that tell you you need to be anything else. And what's left is exactly who you need to be to show up in the way that the people you're here to support 

Chelsea: resonate.

Ruby: What are some examples of that for you? Like what are the bits of a marble that you had to chip away? 

Chelsea: Yeah, well I just did one recently, so I'll tell you that one of, 'cause I did a rebrand to the Spiritually Ambitious recently. Right. And then even more like, I haven't even updated you on this, that there was like another rebrand coming through where I was like, but I can't rebrand yet because I just did this one.

Chelsea: And I don't know if it's even a full, full thing, but at least the podcast I was like. Shoot, this is what the podcast needs to be. And what was coming through for me was just this idea of like the a hundred K healer, because what I'm doing is I'm helping love it. Right? Right. And so it's like that's what felt so true.

Chelsea: And it first, it developed as like a training that I did, and then it developed as like, okay, I'll call this tier of my substack that. And then I was like, I think this is just it. I think this is just what I wanna lean into. There's something about it like this. This is where, when I think about this, I feel more inspired, but then I dropped a question to my current clients and I was like, Hey, what do you guys think about spiritually ambitious versus a hundred K healer?

Chelsea: And I'm thinking of rebranding again. And they were all unequivocally like, no, we like spiritually ambitious better. Oh, no way. Mm-hmm. They wanted spiritually ambitious. Right? And so I was like, oh shoot. So I had to like sit with this for a moment of like, wait, like. Once they started saying that, it felt even more clear 

Chelsea: that it 

Chelsea: was the other 

Chelsea: one.

Ruby: Yeah. Do you know what I was just gonna say? I think it's because they were attracted to spiritually ambitious. So that's your crew for spiritually ambitious. It was almost like, not necessarily asking the wrong crowd, but essentially, you know, they were attracted to that brand, so That's so interesting.

Ruby: All right. 

Chelsea: So yeah. But what I really think it is, 

Chelsea: is they have all this money drama. Yeah, that if you put a money number to it, they're like that. Those don't go together a hundred k in healer. So I think it's more like when I, when I really looked at like what they were saying about it, I was like, oh, it's, it's because of limiting beliefs they have around it.

Chelsea: And because one of my friends who's, she's with me right now, she's like a messaging person, a copywriter. She pointed out, one of them is like results oriented. A hundred K healer is like result and spiritually ambitious is like. Identity. Yeah. And so there's more room to like, not do the thing, but like, I want to, to be around people who are doing the thing.

Chelsea: And like, I wanna lead people who are doing the thing. Um, and not just like floating in this flubbery space. And so, so I made a podcast this Monday where I, the, that title of the episode was, I can't keep Holding Myself Back for You. 

Ruby: Wow. 

Chelsea: And I just talked about how. I have to go through with this, like this is the new rebrand and like the reasons I wasn't ready to move faster and like just claim it sooner is because I was like, people just, people need to come with me.

Chelsea: So I'm trying to like, bring everyone with me. Come on guys. But it's like I have this speed that's like I, I tell my um, friend, I'm like, I move in dog years. Like I live seven years when you guys are living one. 'cause I'm just in such a different speed and I have to honor that. Otherwise it boils over in frustration and resentment.

Chelsea: If I don't go at my speed, even though I'm afraid of leaving people behind, that's not being true to me. 

Ruby: That is so incredible and I resonate deeply with what you're saying, like fully res. I had one of these conniptions a few years ago, just like, why does it feel like, oh, I am dragging, I'm just dragging like everyone along, and I know that sounds so dramatic.

Ruby: It's just, where are my people? I was yelling out to the universe like, where are my fast moving babes? And I think there's also this level of attraction to the speed. And then if, let's say there's a level of like, I can't, I, I just can't be at that speed, or I can't keep up, then there's this huge blanket of guilt, you know, which like used to come along with me of like, oh my God, like I've been doing it all wrong.

Ruby: All these things that I resonate with where you are at. And I remember a conversation actually, probably quite recently, you were in South Africa and you're like, oh. And so here it is, like, you know, it's just so amazing. Are we fully stepping into that rebrand? Yeah. Yeah. For 

Ruby: 2026. 

Chelsea: Yeah, probably even sooner.

Chelsea: Like it's on my list to do this week, and so it's, it'll be happening like as soon as I can get it out. Um, wow. Yeah. A hundred k. Like once I said it when I released that podcast, I can't keep holding myself back for you. And I had just spoken it the way I, I dropped back into my body and I was like, oh, it's right.

Chelsea: Oh my gosh. And it's like, you didn't, you don't always realize when you're disconnected until you reconnect and then. You're like, oh yeah, this is what it feels like to be in the zone. And that was my, yeah. Thing for this month is like my focus is like, who do I need to be this month? I need to be in the zone with myself.

Chelsea: And so that's my focus this month. And once I released that episode, I was like, I'm in the zone. And now my goal is to stay here.

Ruby: It's such a proclamation that episode. It's like this is my line in the sand and it's just, ugh. So beautiful. 

Ruby: I also wanna say. How I resonate with what you're saying about that tangibility and that kind of identity and that dream aversion type branding. I went through something similar last year where I had this realization of I really enjoyed teaching and coaching on how to have a seven figure business. Now you are one of my clients that's like, I get it and I'm gonna do the work to get there.

Ruby: Like that's it, you know, this is my goal. But I also attracted a lot that it was such a long distance goal. That they, it did sort of cultivate this level of like, oh, I'm just gonna sit with the energy, or I'm just gonna wait for the flow to show up. And that was really interesting. And as soon as I realized they don't need this seven figure aspiration, what they do need is learning how to make a sale every day.

Ruby: Then I rebranded into daily sales and the daily sales method and everything switched. I started to attract a lot of doers. I started to attract a lot of people who are like, cool, every day I am gonna do this. It's the small steps and it's the micro wins that I'm going for, as opposed to, you know, oh, this like massively aspirational number where it feels like I'm never quite gonna get there.

Ruby: But the daily salespeople are still like, hell yeah, I'm gonna get to seven figures. You know? So I love that. So that's my example guys. I wanna always give you these examples. Chelsea's given hers. Think about it in your business, you know, and especially if you're wanting to attract. Mentees and those that are coaching with you who are willing to show up to do the work, there's nothing more frustrating being a coach and having the majority of the group just not do anything.

Ruby: It's just like, 

Ruby: oh, it's so frustrating. 

Chelsea: Yeah, and that is part of the messaging thing too, right? If we just wanna like tie into that because it is a lot about like who you're speaking to in your messaging. Like just some small examples of like. There's a lot of emphasis on pain point marketing sometimes, and it's like, yes, we can talk about the pain points, but if the only thing you're leading with over and over again are the pain points, then you're just gonna attract a lot of people who are like complainers and like really wanna talk about their pain points.

Chelsea: And even things like if you're talking to people who are overwhelmed or what I used to do, like I was talking about career clarity and so I was talking to people. Who were indecisive, you're not sure what you're gonna do, but like that was my leading thing. Well guess who could never make a decision to work with me, the indecisive people I was talking to.

Chelsea: What do you know? So it's really interesting to see how like what pain points you speak to really can impact, like the ways that you can move 

Chelsea: people into your world. 

Ruby: I love that. It's so true. And you know what frustrates me most about the pain point marketing is that those messages are the ones that seemingly cut through or those are the messages that seemingly are the ones that show up on, you know, your classic ads.

Ruby: And it's like, are you someone who's currently suffering with this? And it makes it so annoying because it's like, guys, you don't want those types of clients, you know? And, and I think when it comes to your organic messaging. How I like to think about it is, yeah, I understand that you guys are challenged or you know, you feel a lot of pain in this one area, but let's be a mirror to each other.

Ruby: And there's a level of embodiment. It's like, I've been through it, you've been through it. We're gonna get through this together, and here's the very next step that we're going to take. And it makes it just so much more tangible, you know, and so much more easy.

Chelsea: Yeah. And what's 

Chelsea: coming to me as you're sharing is like almost putting, it's like you put the, all the text of your messaging in it.

Chelsea: This doesn't exist, but it's like you're putting it into a word cloud, you know? And it's like if the text is pain point, it's one color, and if it's solution focused, it's another color. And it's like, what's the predominant, like what's the percentage of what your message is? Right? Is it like 50% pain of 50% or like how, and you know, it's just.

Chelsea: Tilting the percentages of like, of course you have to like have a pain and like lead with it, but what's the predominant message and like how, what percentage is the pain versus the solution and the result and the desire and those things. 

Ruby: When you sit down, let's say, so now you're going through rebrand.

Ruby: When you sit down to think about your message for the new brand is the brands come out first, like the big headline has come out first for you. So the next phase is forming. The message around it, you know, your stories, which will result in posts and sub stacks and LinkedIn articles and whatnot. What's your process to really pull out the core messaging in your work?

Chelsea: Yeah, so the simple way I do it. I don't use chat JBT to begin with. Like I do it within me first. 'cause I think it's tempting to like put things into chat JBT, but like you gotta come from you and there's just three columns that I have to start with. The first one is situation and, and so when I'm thinking big brand as a whole, I'm thinking like.

Chelsea: It's a broader thing for every offer. I do this as well and it's more micro and like lasered in, but I think situation, what is the current day-to-day reality of my person before I even am asking like who are they? What's their age? What's like, I don't do any like, I'm like, what does the situation, these people are in their current day-to-day reality.

Chelsea: And I think people can confuse like pain points, but there's like two things and I'll make a distinction between those. But, so first situation in relation to the thing I'm helping them with. Um, so for right now, business, their situation is they're in a side hustle. They like, they're working a full-time job, they have something they wanna build.

Chelsea: They're starting on it, but it's not earning money enough to support them. Okay. Situation. And then we look at desire, right? What is, like, what do they wanna be experiencing instead in relation to that? And you can go like. I usually just go big picture, like what is the bigger thing that they want, the ultimate result that they want.

Chelsea: So they wanna, they wanna be financially supported doing the thing that they love. They wanna make an impact on their own terms, do work that really helps people. Like impact is a big one for me, for my people. And they wanna making money doing that, right? So that's the result. And I'm not trying to make it into their words just yet.

Chelsea: I'm just thinking big picture. And then the thing that you wanna really look at is like, what's the gap for them? What is the challenge that's keeping them from getting from point A to point B? And you know, there's two angles from it. Like one is the challenge they have and then that challenge is the gap.

Chelsea: And like that's the solution you have that comes into fill it. And so it's really just like point A, point B arrow gap, like, so that's, it's really in that simple of a way. And then every single offer you're making has to be really clearly filling a gap. Otherwise, why are you offering it? 

Ruby: Yes. And then at what point have you, I totally see this diagram in my head, by the way.

Ruby: Mm-hmm. I totally see it. Like when you are, when you are describing, I'm like, yep, arrow. Yep. No, exactly. At what point do you then use GPT? Like do you, so you, you, you write it all out and then do you just document, dump it into GPT to be like. Help me get the words around this. Is, is that at that point or do you do it like the back and forth in between?

Chelsea: Yeah, I'll do a back and forth, like once I have it articulated. And then something else I'll do, because this is kind of, sort of throughout the process, is. I'm usually doing this, like I'll do it for my own head first, but then I'm gonna go look at like what are the interactions I've had with people who are like in my world so that I can get more granular on each of those things.

Chelsea: And so recently what I did was I went and looked back at all the intake forms of the people I recently signed on for business coaching and really was like, what are they saying specifically that relates to the their situation? What are they saying? Specifically. And so I like went through it all and like collated it in those columns.

Chelsea: And then I put those into chat GPT to be like so clever. What are like, what are the, you know, what are the themes and the few points? And so, so that, that's a way I use, um, chat GPT. And then sometimes if I'm trying to figure something out, if I'm like, well they're saying this, but is there something else going on?

Chelsea: And he'll, you know, I just, it's sort of like a thought partner thing, so I'm not really like what the problem with chatt PT is makes everything really long and complicated. Yes. Diluted and like, and it gets away from the truth of it because it just kinda word salads around a lot of things. And so it's like you can use it to, to help you make sense of it, but you really need to understand it and lock into it like in your body so that you can just speak 

Chelsea: to it.

Ruby: Exactly, exactly. No, I love the example that you gave around. Popping your intake forms in, because that's like the real what? It's their words. It's the real data. Mm-hmm. I love doing it with my dms. So if I get a DM about like, Hey, do you take on one-to-ones? Or What do your masterminds look like for next year?

Ruby: 'cause this is where I'm at and I get really long dms anyway. May as well be an intake form. I screenshot that and I just put it into an entire chat GBT file. And that's just like, this is what my people are asking. This is what interested, you know, incoming people are inquiring about. And then I'll be like, where is my message not clear enough that they feel they have to come and ask, because that's almost them.

Ruby: Like, they might have gone through pages or they can't find it. So it's like, that's always very interesting 'cause we're so close to it every day, you know, like there'll be times when even I'm not working, I'm watching Netflix, whatever. I'm tinkering at a page. I've just got the laptop on my lap and I'm just like, Ooh, this is, this could be a little bit better and clearer.

Ruby: So that's, I think that's something that, you know, it's like the in-between parts of just the sexy sales and coaching. Like, you know what Chelsea and I talking about is just like, Hey, you are always kind of looking for ways to fill, like you said, fill in that gap and find better ways for clients to just flow through the whole process, the acquisition process a lot better.

Ruby: But that's, that's super clever. Do you do that as well with the 

Ruby: dms? 

Chelsea: I love that. I don't really get many dms. I'll get like, emails is kind of where my people go. Yes. But yeah, I love and, or like comments on things or I guess in LinkedIn I'm getting more dms, but yeah, it's, it's literally, I love your process and I think the, the general vibe is like, what's your system for keeping your finger on the pulse of what your people are saying?

Chelsea: Because it's like messaging is like this dance right. Of. I'm communicating one thing and what are they perceiving from it? So how did, where's where did I not communicate it clearly? I think that's such a brilliant question is like where, what am I not communicating clearly and having chat GPT tell you, because yeah, we're so close to it and I notice sometimes I can feel like a little defensive around it of like, I.

Chelsea: Did you not read the sales page? I, I, I poured my heart and soul into making this, 

Chelsea: how is it not clear? Right. And it's like 

Ruby: true. 

Ruby: Um, how dare you not read my 56 FAQs? It's so true. Oh my God. That's, that's, that's brilliant. Oh, all right. So, um. I I really wanna touch on this before we, we finish up. 'cause I could talk to you for ages, but I need to know what's going on in your substack world.

Ruby: Okay. Because Chelsea and I always, I always pick Chelsea's brain on this. We need this on the pod. So a couple months ago you were like, I am gonna start a substack. Oh, you've been saying it for a while, but then you just did it. So I have been so invested in your Substack journey and guys, if you dunno what substack is, Chelsea, you'll explain.

Ruby: I am seriously gonna start it in 2026. But walk us through this because it's a brand new platform for you and it's already showing big signs. 

Chelsea: Yes, it is. And I wanna just like keep people's, you know, feet on the ground of like, there's a lot of things I haven't figured out and it is not a magical platform.

Chelsea: It's not a way to just. There's no one platform that's like, oh, that's the answer. That's the easy way to do things like that does. I don't think that exists. 

Ruby: Like you just busted my bubble. 

Chelsea: I know. We just, 

Chelsea: we gotta keep our expectations in check. Yes. 'cause I'm the person who's like looking for the shiny new solution and I just gotta be like real about, it's a wonderful platform, but it's not gonna solve everything.

Ruby: I love that you've said this, so, because all the narrative out there is like, I started a Substack and I made. A hundred thousand dollars in a month, or I started substack and I've got 1000 new email subscribers in a day. 

Chelsea: No, it's crazy. That's just like be clear, like I do love it and I see promise. Maybe I'm doing it wrong.

Chelsea: Maybe. Maybe they're like, don't listen to this girl. I think I'm a normal user, like I'm not like a super user in any way. I came in with a normal amount of. I think I sort of represent an average person who like had a bit of a following somewhere and is trying to move to Substack. So just to kind of give you that experience.

Chelsea: Um, so what Substack is, if you guys don't know, it's kind of like medium.com if you guys are familiar with that, but it's just a platform that. Is a way for creators to share their work and get paid for their work. So there's a subscription model, um, where you can sort of like charge and put paywalls on different parts of your work.

Chelsea: And the main part of the platform is articles. So it's like writing articles, um, sort of like blogging basic. And there is a lot of other multimedia features, which are really cool. And that's actually my favorite part where the way it sort of repurposes everything. And so I think if you're starting out and you do not have any sort of long form content, I would recommend Substack because it gives you an, an access point to all of them.

Chelsea: So just to give you guys an idea, like my podcast is hosted through Substack. Like I don't have Bud Sprout or Anchor or an RSS feed. It's Substack. And so it's a free hosting, not the hosting is super expensive, but. I can record, um, I don't record in Substack, but like I record something, I can upload it as a podcast.

Chelsea: It just goes directly to all the podcasts. It also immediately emails everyone crazy. Good. So like your whole email list can be in your substack and you can just upload your current email list and so it emails it to everybody. You can also, if, if your podcast is recorded on video and you put the video up, it'll also publish it to YouTube for you.

Chelsea: It'll chop it up into YouTube shorts for you and some of those actually get traction for me. So, so it's what I love. I think of it as like the home of my long form content. It's like the home and distribution center of that now where I haven't found there to be, I haven't found growth through the app itself to be any sort of magical, like I'll get like a few subscribers from the app.

Chelsea: A week, but then where I get more subscribers is like when I'm promoting it on LinkedIn or I'm promoting it somewhere else. So like that. And that's possible 'cause I haven't cracked that part yet. But I, I do love it. I find a lot of value in it as a one, as a way to simplify and organize the backend.

Chelsea: 'cause before I would have to like upload a podcast here and then go to my email thing and email it out there and put the link. So to me it's really nice in its simplicity and I think there is potential. In leveraging growth. But it's, it's not magic. But if you don't have any sort of long form content, I think that's the place to start because you can do all three things on it, like podcast, YouTube, and um, blog.

Ruby: Brilliant. I love that. And thank you for giving us that on the ground. Look at it. 'cause that's just, you crave that, you know, it's just like, okay, this is really sexy and glamorous, but is someone real out there? Can you just tell me like, what's happening? And even just hearing you describe it. I'm just like, yeah, I'm in.

Ruby: I'm excited. And I think, you know, it's, it's another platform that what I'm hearing is offering simplicity and streamlining, and because of that I wanna give it a shot. And so that's, that's super, super exciting. What's your substack, um, 

Ruby: name? 

Chelsea: Well, right now it's the spiritually ambitious, but it might become a hundred K healer soon.

Chelsea: But one feature I'm playing with on is doing live streams on substack. Yes. And I don't think that's like a kind of uncharted territory. So I'm experimenting there and I'm going live like every day. Literally every day. And then the cool thing you can do is you just press a button after the fact and it uploads it to your podcast.

Chelsea: So it's like instant repurposing. That's amazing. And on YouTube short, and it gives you clips for it that publishes them to YouTube shorts. So I'm like. I actually kinda like that as like a immediate way. So that's, that's something I'm playing with and I think that could be a way to get traction if I can kind of figure that out.

Ruby: Yeah, that's awesome. That's amazing. So I love it. We could keep going and going. I want to ask you, what's a piece of advice you would give somebody? It was super inspired by your journey. You know, they might. Be a doctor wanting to get out, be like, let me out. I know a lot of your clients are, you know, in, in that space and they want to travel and they want to live a life of freedom.

Ruby: Like you have constantly exploring new ways to grow different income streams evolving. Yeah. What would you say to them? 

Chelsea: You're not 

Chelsea: gonna like it, but the dream is nice and sounds really cute, but the thing you wanna really ask yourself is like, what are you willing to trade for it? 

Ruby: Mm. 

Chelsea: Because there's a reason you don't have it right now, and it's not because it's not possible for you, but it's because you're holding onto something.

Chelsea: Maybe you're holding onto safety, maybe you're holding onto certainty, you're holding onto approval of people so you can have it right. You can have it for sure, and you're gonna have to trade something, and I don't know what that is, but when you get real with yourself about what that trade is gonna be, because I think the biggest disservice we do to ourselves is we have this like wistful, misty-eyed dream.

Chelsea: That we're either like, oh, that's someday. Oh, I'd love that. Oh, you're living the dream. That's wonderful. And you almost convince yourself you can't have it, or you're putting it down the road and it's like, no, no, you can have it. Like anyone can have it and it's gonna cost you something. So are you willing to pay that?

Chelsea: Do you want that? If not, like just stop telling yourself you want it, 

Ruby: Chelsea, with the arrow. Love it. It's exactly what we need. No, keep it real. That is. Everything you're saying, I'm just like, yep. Even as you are saying that, I'm like, yes, I had to trade this, I had to trade this, I had to trade this. Like, this is so good.

Chelsea: What's the trade that might surprise us that you made? 

Ruby: I dunno if it was surprise, but I just, you know, like I, I just traded the whole. Picket fence and the house and the meeting like, 'cause I've got the kids, so needing to have the kids in a stable environment and all of this, it's like we're trading that for travel, baby.

Ruby: We are going, you know, and we're trading out the primary house and the, you know, in Australia it's such a big thing, like the great Australian dream they call it, to have this security, this house and you know, like everything locked away before you enjoy things like, I'd say that traded a lot of friendships.

Ruby: Definitely. The friendships that just didn't match and I was trying to make it match for so long. They were really big ones and things like that. You know, where it's hard trading approval, it's a big thing. Asian culture approval, just putting it out in brackets. It's a whole different level. Every culture's got that.

Ruby: But yeah, it's just one of those things where the good girl complex, you know, big thing just. You said it right at the start, you know, just like this like level of, you don't mean to be a contrarian, but you can't live in the box anymore. That's the trade. Yeah. And it's scary. But guys, we did it. Chelsea and I have done it.

Ruby: Okay. Like, come on, come join the party. But be real about it. Thank you so much, babe, for sharing your wisdom. Being here until past midnight. Now, like local time for you. And for, I know this podcast is gonna go so far for so many. How do we connect with you best? Like, where do we find you? I'm gonna leave all the links anyway below, but just hearing it from you, where is the best place to like connect and message?

Chelsea: Yeah, so, um, platform to message would be LinkedIn. That's where I'm at every day. Substack is a great place to come follow along, and if you wanna see me daily on the live streams, Substack is for that too. 

Ruby: It's so refreshing by the way, to be like, not having someone on the pod that's like. I love it, but it's like, you know, you'd be like, come find me on Instagram.

Ruby: It's like two very different platforms. Yeah, guys, if you don't have these two platforms, you're just gonna have to get it to like message Chelsea. I love that for them. Oh, thank you so much. Enjoy the rest of Namibia. I'm so excited to hear all the fun things that you're doing there. I really wanna go to South Africa and Namibia next year, so I'll be picking your brain.

Chelsea: For sure, a hundred percent. I have so many resources for you, you don't even know. Thanks so much for having me. 

Ruby: Big kisses my love. See you everybody. We'll catch you in the next episode.