Flow State Business

What I've learned from the worst coaching experiences ever

October 21, 2022 Ruby Lee Episode 270
Flow State Business
What I've learned from the worst coaching experiences ever
Show Notes Transcript

I’m sure we’ve all had experiences in the coaching world where things don’t play out as expected. We’re all human, we all make mistakes, but some of the experiences I’ve had with coaches have taught me a lot about what NOT to do in my own business.


Every experience is an opportunity to learn so this is a bit of a fun episode, looking back on some of the craziest experiences I’ve had in the coaching industry and the lessons I came away with.


I’m not naming any names, because the purpose of this episode isn’t to slight any individuals. But by sharing some of the worst coaching experiences I’ve had, I hope it helps you become a more powerful, more aligned coach and aware of the way you show up when working with your clients.


These terrible coaching experiences have been the greatest teachers for me when it comes to customer standards and client excellence. I learned about humility, professionalism and knowing what to share and what not to share with clients. And if you can learn to take the lessons from bad experiences, you’ll be a better CEO and entrepreneur because of it.


Some of these experiences left me angry, frustrated and simply stunned at the behaviour of some people! But I’ve learned about caring for clients and having basic respect for paying customers. After some of these coaching experiences, I was more inspired than ever to hold my brand to integrity, show up for my clients in a professional manner and continue to hold space for them energetically.


So, have a laugh with me as I share some of the worst coaching experiences I’ve ever had and the valuable lessons I learned from them all. 



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What I've learned from the worst coaching experiences ever

Ruby  00:00

I don't know about you guys, but I am completely consuming everything that the Hormozis are putting out right now. I am loving everything Alex has got to share about the business. I'm loving everything Leila has got to share about building the business and the operations behind it. And I just came off this episode, where Alex is basically talking about how you can never ever hire a bad mentor, you can never make a bad choice, hiring a coach. And it doesn't matter how much you pay them, you're never going to make a mistake, basically, because they're always going to teach you different lessons, whether they're really valuable lessons that you can take along with you in a more positive sense, or whether they're really valuable lessons that they can give you, in a sense of, I never ever want to be that way. Or that is an example of what not to do in the industry. Or even if it's not the industry, what not to do, that crosses your own personal standards and expectations and the things that, you know, for a fact, maybe you weren't so clear on it prior and then you've experienced something and it's like, whoa, okay, I know, to never ever go there in terms of my business. 


Ruby  01:11

So I was truly umming and ahhing whether or not I record an episode like this, because I am aware that it can be misconstrued and taken in a really, really opposite sense of the intention behind this. So I'm going to ask the universe to do its thing. And for it to be an episode that is really truly about the lessons that I have learned, working with coaches who have shown me what not to do. And we can have a bit of a laugh about it. And I can tell you what I've done to make sure that I am holding myself of a different standard. And at the same time, also giving you guys like and also like a look into what Alex was referring to about how it doesn't matter with the coaches you work with if at the time you feel really hard done by or you're hard on yourself for choosing air quotes the wrong coach, and helping you see it from a whole other perspective. Okay, so I really do hope that it's taken with a little bit of jest, and certainly not finger pointing, I'm absolutely not going to mention any names, any brands, any I'm not going to, you know, link it to any particular person, I'm going to keep the genders very neutral. And we can just really look at the situation as it was. And obviously, it's from my perspective, everybody has a different side of the story. But basically how it's helped me become one of the best coaches in the world, and why I hold myself to that standard. 


Ruby  02:37

And I'll also say that, you know, I've worked with a good handful of coaches and mentors now who have offered me so many wonderful tips of advice. And even some of these that I'm mentioning today, they equally gave me some really awesome, sick pieces of information that I have gone ahead and applied. And it's made me a lot of money, and it's helped me see things a lot clearer. So anyway, with that being said, I will also start by saying this, I am not perfect. I know how disappointing, I know you all thought that I was. But I have so many flaws, you guys, namely being that I run so fast that I often leave people behind or that sometimes that can be really inconsiderate with making decisions and not you know, bringing the team along, just like classic Sagittarius fire energy, just go go go. And not really taking into perspective, like what is actually you know, going on and understanding what others are going through as well. So I am very sure that I have pissed off my clients before in some way and there's probably someone out there doing an episode like this, you know, saying that it was me.


Ruby  03:45

I take full responsibility I really do. But I really thought I would share some of the craziest stories that I've experienced in the coaching world that have really helped me identify what not to do in the hopes of bettering my own coaching style, professionalism, and standards that I hold for my own soul of the business. I also want to note that I really back the coaching industry, I fucking love it. I'm not one of those coaches, that's like, Oh, I hate being a coach or coaching is just not for me anymore. Or, you know, I have absolutely zero intention of exiting the coaching world anytime soon. I definitely have had friends and close peers and colleagues who literally will say, I am so sick of the coaching industry. I'm so done with it. It makes me feel sick being in it. That is not my jam. I love coaches. I love you guys so much. I can't wait to continue to forge a really really long career in the coaching space. And I'm sure that you know like one day when I decide that coaching is done and dusted, I'll always look back at this time and go this was really the time of my life. It was so amazing. 


Ruby  04:56

So this isn't really meant to open up a negative spiral of outlining an individual or asked in the coaching industry by any means. But I think by sharing some of this it normalises what it looks like to actually begin to understand what it means for you rather than being a victim of it, and how you can help better the coaching industry because of it. But I want to document my learning moments, all of them. And these are the greatest teachers when it comes to customer standards and client excellence. So let's get started. 


Ruby  05:26

I worked with a coach who literally said these words, and it was about the new coaching programme that they were creating. And at the time, this coach was really, really just on a massive high, lots of people enrolling. And they were really just enjoying it and potentially enjoying it very much on the ego side. And a question came up. And the coach was asked, How do you hold the energy of the group when it's so large, and there's so many students on the inside? And I shit you not you guys, this coach responded by saying, you have to haze the students. So I was very new to the idea of hazing. I understand it's not really an Australian thing. I've never, you know, really understood this as a whole. And so I was like, What is hazing? And I'm like, you don't know what hazing is. It's basically what you break, you break them, and then you put them back together and make you or break you kind of a thing. And it's like you play all these pranks, and to the point where sometimes it can get really just way too off kilter. And, you know, it can get dangerous at times, but this coach was just sort of saying, You got to break them, and you got to help them understand who's in charge. The direct term was you got to break the bitches. I kid you not,


Ruby  06:46

Oh, I couldn't believe it. And it was so different to the brand that I was attracted to this notion, this belief, this philosophy was so far away from who I thought I was working with, and investing in. It was mean and unkind and so nasty. And there truly was no other way that I could describe this to you all, it was pure projected bitterness channelled into a business, it was so angry. And, you know, part of me was sort of thinking, wow, this, there's some stuff in here around inner child work for this particular individual. Maybe it had something to do with feeling out of control in friendships and feeling bullied as a child, whatever it was, but it was disgusting and crude. And it really taught me at that point, what you see on the outside and what you feel on the inside and it's a mismatch, that's just a highway to misalignment. And it's no surprise that this particular programme really crumbled, you know, not not too far into it, it really crumbled. And there was a lot of bad gossip going around this particular programme, because of that, you know, so it's not like, I don't know, I don't know why you would kind of even say things like that in such a public way, and then just kind of think it was cool, or it was funny, or that it would actually make you more respected. It's just really nasty. 


Ruby  08:14

Second scenario, a different coach. So this coach, you guys at the end of this are going to be like, okay, Ruby, you need to learn how to be a better judge of character when picking out these coaches, but I swear to you, their branding, and my initial sense is really different. But like I said earlier, it is really coupled with a lot of wonderful things that I also learned from them. So this other coach basically said, Okay, when I show up in a room, I have this undying knowing that I am Jesus. oh, my gosh, even just saying that out loud. And I said to them, What do you mean? And they said, I'm Jesus. And and then they went on to say that they had a reading from a psychic healer, I think it was who said that they were Jesus incarnate the energy of Jesus incarnate, and that they were the ultimate teacher and they would have disciples who would follow them all around the world and spread their message. Oh, cool. Gosh. And then they went on to say, and you are one of them. Oh my god. I am a disciple of Jesus. I did say that. But it was just a moment where I was so interesting. And I honestly thought quite a good moment. Was wondering whether it was just a practical joke and not you know, when you're just not sure whether to laugh or not, and you go oh my god, they've been serious.


Ruby  09:52

It was one of those moments. Yeah, it was just really something that I had to note and realise that okay, this person's really, really, truly backing their work and backing the entire message. And I know that I was meant to work with this person for a reason. And I guess one of the lessons that I really learned from that was humbleness, and being aware of where you believe that you were from a social standpoint and professional standpoint, and knowing what to share and what not to share more so than anything. 


Ruby  10:24

Okay, third scenario. Are you enjoying these? I hope you are. Third scenario, I like to call this scenario unavailable and stood up. And this is actually one that really really pisses me off in the industry. If this happens to you, it sucks, I'm sorry. And it's something that I know, gosh, there's no excuses with this one. So a coach who I was definitely paying a lot of money to, became unavailable very quickly, and messaged me in a very short period of time with no real explanation. And I didn't see that in time. And I went on the coaching call, and I was completely stood up for the call. And what pisses me off the most is when energetics is used as an excuse to act out of kindness and respect for others. So basically, this particular coach said, I'm unable to make the call, will have to find another time to reschedule. I messaged the team, and I message this coach and said, Can we please reschedule? And this was after a period of time, maybe three or four days, can we please reschedule, I really would love to talk to about my next launch, which is coming up next week. And I just wanted to really have your support there. They basically replied to say energetically, I'm just unavailable to show up right now. We'll have to do it next week. And I just was really quite shocked and surprised, just given that it really felt just as though I was not important, and that I was very low priority. And I understand that if there were certain things that they were working on energetically. That's all cool. But I'm interested to hear from you guys. Where do you draw the line with that? 


Ruby  12:01

If you're feeling energetically down and you have a high paying client? Do you just put it off completely for weeks, which is exactly what happens. So I didn't get to rebook that until two and a half weeks later, I remember that very clearly. And at that point, a lot of my friends who I told said, you should immediately get out of that contract, because you are not a priority. And I was already finishing up very soon. After that call, I realised that I didn't want to be coached by this person anymore, and just stopped going to any of the sessions. And I just stopped requesting private calls. And eventually, I had a reach out from that person saying Is everything okay? Question mark, question mark, question mark. And I had a very fluid conversation with this particular individual saying how it was really unprofessional, and how I felt really kicked to the curb, and just like another number, and not someone who really understood my business inside out. And that was it. So that was a very, very interesting time. And it also taught me, and honestly, just looking at my whole entire business, I have, I would say 99.9 percent of the time, I have never stood someone up and 100% of the time, I have always if I've had to for whatever reason, it would have had to be a major emergency or something full on happened, I would have rescheduled that person straight away, like as soon as I could straight away. So it really taught me about client excellence and standards and just basic respect for a customer and a client. 


Ruby  13:36

Okay, next scenario, the coach who I bought a course from had sold a course without building it. This is pretty normal in my world. I will sell courses that I haven't built. And I'm very open and very transparent about that I create my courses live, I give you the dates in which I am going to be showing up for those live. And by the end of the four weeks or the six weeks, we have the full course. And then it becomes sold as a self study or an evergreen. This particular coach was selling a course without building it. And they were building it through pre recorded not through life. And so basically, it was an early bird and then the full price. I came in at early bird and they basically said, you will have this course very shortly. And this is what it's all about beautiful, gorgeous sales page. And it was awesome. I was like great. They ended up sending communication saying that they needed to reschedule the release for the course by over a month. And I said I just had this intuitive gut feel that they weren't going to deliver it in the month either. And I just said hey, if there's a possibility, I would love a refund on the course, if that's at all something that you would offer. 


Ruby  14:55

They came back and slapped me with the biggest legal jargon that I have ever seen. It was a huge email and a letter. And they also put their debt recovery team on me because I must have been paid in full, I must have paid as a payment plan. And they were afraid that I wasn't going to continue paying the payment plan. And it was just the most full on. Like, oh my gosh, like I just was asking if I could get a refund on that initial payment. Because to me, it felt like you didn't meet the terms of the course where on your sales page, you said that it would be ready at this time, and now you're delaying it by one month. So I was very clear. Luckily, I had an attorney on my side who was able to just like take that off my plate energetically because I said to her, I don't know what where I stand here but if they're going to throw a grenade, I'm happy to throw it right back at them. And that's the sag in me, I think it's just like, alright, let's go. And I got the refund many months later, the full refund. And you know, the course I will say never got completed. So I'm not really sure what happened there with the rest of the people who purchased this, but it never went live. And I'm guessing that they ended up refunding everybody in the end anyway. So yeah, this lesson was really big for me, because I realised that I knew my energy was always going to be really attuned to creating courses live, I love it, you know, I enjoy having a bright audience that I can connect with share, you know, do all the things in terms of it just being like right there and then. 


Ruby  16:30

I said to myself, Ruby, if you're going to do this, you're going to sell a course you're going to sell it before it's even put together, you better sure as hell show up for it and show up for it good because you don't want to have that scenario. And also on the legal side of things, it just taught me to be more compassionate, at least go back to the client to say, hey, is there anything going on what makes you feel uncomfortable, offer them some, you know, pieces of whatever it is comfort that they need, maybe even just go the extra mile to say, if I was ever in a situation where I had to delay the course release, I'd be saying I'm so sorry for this, by the way, here's another course I can get you started or here is a partial credit that you can use towards something else, or I'm going to send you out my journal to say thank you for being so patient with me, I just want to make sure that I'm completely putting together something for you that's in alignment with the vision for this particular project. So thank you so much for understanding. However, if you do wish to exit here is the form to exit. You know, like just really being very fair and open and connected with what is actually going on and what the people might be feeling. So that was a big lesson.


Ruby  18:11

Okay, this one, I went to a retreat, I arrived late to the retreat. And by the time I got there, I was late by about three hours just because travel stuff anyway, three hours. And by the time I got there, everybody was smashed drunk. Everyone. And the person who was hosting the retreat was so drunk that they passed out on the couch for the whole first day of the retreat. And it was only a couple of days retreat. So the whole first day, this person was cold out.


Ruby  18:56

And it was interesting because there was a lot of people at this retreat who had never met before. And we were all just kind of wondering what to do for that whole day. So unprofessional and fucking crazy to me that that could have even have happened. And then when this person became sober again, we did go out to dinner that evening as planned, and it was on the itinerary and this person went ahead and drank some more. So clearly, there was some more underlying issues there. Fear of holding a group or avoidance or something was going on that the bottle was calling louder than it was to serve clients and customers who had taken a big chunk out of their lives and some of them travelled a long way to get there and it was just completely disrespectful. So that's like kind of speaks for itself. I think we know what lessons we learned from that. It's just self control. And yeah, let that be that. So it was very interesting. 


Ruby  20:01

The next one, I had a coaching call, where this is a one off call with somebody and I was really excited to meet this person because I was really drawn to them, their marketing was fantastic. And I just really was so keen to kind of see what gems would come from this call. Anyway, jumped on the call and this coach basically said, I'm so sorry. And then just starts bursting out into tears, tears and tears and tears. It was like, very awkward 45 minutes of tears. And they went on to actually tell me what was going on. This is the first time I ever met this particular person. And they told me about the depths of their relationship and what was going on, they're going through a breakup, and how it brought up all this stuff. And it was kind of at this one point where I thought, am I coaching them? And you know, there was a huge part of me that kind of thought, Okay, well, they need me right now I'm here, and I'm gonna offer that level of support and comfort. And it was 45 minutes of that. And then I think it helped because they got themselves together, they composed themselves. And we had 15 minutes where they said, basically, okay, this whole call has been about about me, Can I at least offer you some advice? Let's get back on track and offer you some advice. So it's like, great, and this coach went to a probably about 20 minutes more than the call. 


Ruby  21:32

So in total, I got maybe half an hour to 40 minutes of the coaching call that I purchased. And it was good. Like, you know, I mean, obviously, their energy was all over the shop, and I couldn't really fully show my stuff, like be vulnerable myself, because I was really aware of where they were at. You know what I mean? So the call ended, and I felt really weird. Like, I was just sort of thinking to myself, do I ask for another call? That was it? Or do I just leave it and they didn't offer another call? Either. There was no follow up there around so sorry, I know, a majority of that call was really unexpected, and nothing, no replay, none of that. And at the time, I kind of thought there would be a replay, but I don't know.  So then I reached out to the team and I said, hey, would it be okay, if just this is what happened on the call? Is it okay to reschedule a number and they just sent me another call link with a payment link attached to it. And so I DMd the person and I said, hope everything is well. I've just reached out to your team, I'm not sure you know. But as most of our call was focused on some of the things that you were going through, would it be okay, just to catch up again for another half hour. And it was just left on read. 


Ruby  22:47

So that was so interesting. And that one got me so annoyed. Oh, I was just shaking with anger at it. I went through all the stages of grief, but let's just say anger was the one that I was left with. And I just said, How could someone just do that? And it was Michael gets all of it. Therefore, how could someone just do that? I can't believe that you would just leave someone on read like that after blah, blah, blah. And it was so interesting. Anyway, I ended up letting it go deleted that person realise that that was meant to be when I was paying for like Alex Hormozie says, was the lesson within that, you know, just don't bring your personal problems to coaching calls, and hold your brand to integrity of that. So clearly, I was just really there to make the money. Or maybe it was something else. Maybe they were just really embarrassed. Maybe they you know, had that vulnerability hangover, that could absolutely had been part of it too. So very interesting, for sure. 


Ruby  23:49

So that is it. I hope you enjoyed the little story tell. It's so important you guys to learn from these moments. And to not just kind of point the fingers and be the victim and feel really hard done by. I really hope that by sharing some of these worst coaching experiences that I've had, you can be more aware of also what not to do when working with clients. Maybe there's some of the things that I shared today that you're like, actually Rubs, that's not so bad, like what's the big deal there? And that's good, because that's also understanding where it is that feels good for you. And if you've heard that story, and you're gone yeah, I would definitely claim that I'm Jesus. Why not? That feels good to me, then do that. Just own it. But you know, there's gonna be parts of your journey where you might feel as though you're really in the moment and you feel like you should have got your money's worth or whatnot. 


Ruby  24:42

After some time, you will see how that moment impacted on you as a CEO, as a business owner and as an entrepreneur. And I know for me personally, that's what's happened. Remembering that we're all human, we all make mistakes. We can never ever make everybody happy and these are obviously total extreme examples really extreme examples I've got others but let's not spend too much more time there. It was really more so a highlight on how to gain lessons from moments in mentoring where you never really expected to see the lessons and I really hope that this has helped you maybe even giving you a laugh, something to relate to, something to chat about. If any of these are you know, really kind of close to home for you, send me through a DM I'd love to hear your story as well and like I said, I'm really uninterested in naming names don't ask me who they were. Don't even DM me insinuating that you think you know who they were. It was merely just the lesson and the connection to that to help us become more powerful, more aligned and better coaches. Okay.


Ruby  25:49

I love you all so much. Thank you for listening. Don't forget if you feel inspired to please write and review the podcast. I'm so excited to get this podcast out to more people in the world so that we can just continue to really grow our six and seven plus figure coaching businesses in so much flow and with so much ease and with so much love and grace for each other. All right, love you and I'll catch you in the next episode. Bye guys